....In February, former cardinal Theodore McCarrick was dismissed from the clerical state. What is your assessment of this punishment? And what do you think of the way the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith handled the McCarrick case in the months after your testimony? Lastly, do you think there were any concrete effects (positive or negative) from your testimony?
McCarrick's degradation from office was, as far as it goes, a just punishment, but there is no legitimate reason why it was not exacted more than five years earlier, and after a proper trial with a judicial procedure. Those with authority to act (i.e. Pope Francis) knew everything they needed to know by June of 2013. Yet my testimony of last August almost certainly accelerated this punishment, which shifted public focus onto McCarrick and away from those who long knew of his crimes and profited by his patronage. Even after the publication of the statement on McCarrick by Cardinal [Timothy] Dolan on June 20, 2018, there was plenty of time for a trial, but it would have been too damaging for many prominent members of the Curia and of course for Pope Francis himself. So, instead of a proper judicial procedure, after more than seven months of total silence, an administrative procedure was deliberately chosen. It is hard to avoid concluding that the timing was designed to manipulate public opinion. Condemning McCarrick as a scapegoat with an exemplary punishment — it was the first time in Church history that a cardinal was reduced to the lay state — would support the narrative that Pope Francis was firmly determined to fight against clergy sexual abuse.
According to a statement issued by the Press Office of the Holy See on Feb. 16, 2019, McCarrick was found guilty by the CDF of "solicitation in the Sacrament of Confession, and sins against the Sixth Commandment" with both minors and adults, with "the aggravating factor of the abuse of power." The penalty imposed was laicization, which Pope Francis confirmed as "definitive." In this way McCarrick, who has always declared himself innocent, was deprived of any opportunity to appeal the sentence. Where is the due process? Is this how justice is done in the Vatican?
Moreover, having made the sentence definitive, the pope has made it impossible to conduct any further investigation, which could have revealed who in the Curia and elsewhere knew of McCarrick's abuses, when they knew it, and who helped him to be named archbishop of Washington and eventually a cardinal. Note, by the way, that the documents of this case, whose publication had been promised, have never been produced.
The bottom line is this: Pope Francis is deliberately concealing the McCarrick evidence.
I repeat it firmly before God: Pope Francis learned about McCarrick from me on Sunday 23 June 2013, 40 minutes before the Angelus. I told him of McCarrick's abuses after the pope himself, on his own initiative, asked me about McCarrick.
But let us consider the far more important spiritual dimension, which was completely absent from any declaration about McCarrick or any press conference at the summit. The most important purpose of penalties in the canonical order is repentance and conversion: "Suprema ratio est salus animarum" (the supreme law is the salvation of souls). I believe, therefore, that the mere "reduction to the lay state" is completely inadequate, because it does not provide a remedy and does not express the concern for the most important purpose of punishment, namely, the salvation of McCarrick's soul.
Indeed, unless it is accompanied by other measures, a simple laicization could be considered an expression of contempt for the lay state. The idea that a prelate who misbehaves is punished by being "reduced" to the lay state smacks of clericalism. As Professor Scott Hahn argues, it undermines the meaning of the universal call to holiness.
I believe, and I am not the only one, that the penalty of excommunication — from which he can be absolved at any time — should also be imposed on McCarrick. As an appropriately dosed medication, it would be imposed to induce him to take responsibility for his sins, to repent, to be reconciled with God, and thus to save his soul.....
Your testimony makes it clear that you feel that homosexuality — and the failure of the Vatican to respond to it — is a core part of the Church's current problem in dealing with abuse. Can you explain, with as much clarity as possible, how homosexuality as you view it is correlated with abuse?
Let's keep two arenas distinct: (1) crimes of sexual abuse and (2) criminal coverup of crimes of sexual abuse. In most cases in the Church today, both have a homosexual component — usually downplayed — that is key to the crisis.
As to the first, heterosexual men obviously do not choose boys and young men as sexual partners of preference, and approximately 80 percent of the victims are males, the vast majority of which are post-pubescent males. Statistics from many different countries regarding sexual abuses committed by clergy leave no doubt. Horrific as the cases of abuse by true pedophiles are, the percentage is far smaller. It is not pedophiles but gay priests preying on post-pubertal boys who have bankrupted the U.S. dioceses. One of the most recent and reliable studies, "Is Catholic clergy sex abuse related to homosexual priests," was conducted by Father Paul Sullins, PhD, of the Ruth Institute. In its executive summary, the Sullins study reports, among other things, the following:
●"The share of homosexual men in the priesthood rose from twice that of the general population in the 1950s to eight times the general population in the 1980s. This trend was strongly correlated with increasing child sex abuse."
●"Estimates from these findings predict that, had the proportion of homosexual priests remained at the 1950s level, at least 12,000 fewer children, mostly boys, would have suffered abuse."
The preponderance of these cases of abuse is overwhelming. I do not think anyone can dispute this. That homosexuality is a major cause of the sexual abuse crisis has also been stated by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, in his recent essay, "The Church and the scandal of sexual abuse." From his long experience as president of the CDF, he recalls how "in various seminaries homosexual cliques were established, which acted more or less openly and significantly changed the climate in the seminaries."
Given the overwhelming evidence, it is mind-boggling that the word "homosexuality" has not appeared once, in any of the recent official documents of the Holy See, including the two Synods on the Family, the one on Youth, and the recent Summit last February.
As to the second arena, the "gay mafia" among bishops is bound together not by shared sexual intimacy but by a shared interest in protecting and advancing one another professionally and sabotaging all efforts at reform. In his aforementioned essay, Pope Emeritus Benedict noted that a Vatican investigation of seminaries, including the problem of homosexual cliques, "brought no new insights, apparently because various powers had joined forces to conceal the true situation," and his observation lends credence to my testimony that a powerful network of prelates has, for decades, covered up the abuses. Is there a single active bishop in the United States who admits he is actively homosexual? Of course not. Their work is constitutionally clandestine.
Did your time in the United States affect your view on homosexuality? Were your positions hardened in any way by spending time in a country with a very strong and defined subculture of church conservatism/traditionalism?
My stay in the United States and the presence of a "very strong and defined subculture of church conservatism/traditionalism," as you put it, have nothing whatsoever to do with my view on homosexuality. My view has been and will always remain faithful to the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church, which is aptly summarized in the Catechism:
"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.' They are contrary to the natural law" (CCC, 2357). The Catechism goes on to say that the inclination to engage in such acts (rather than the persons themselves, who should not be defined by this inclination) is "objectively disordered" and "constitutes for most of them a trial." The Church does not respond by condemning them. Quite the contrary, she teaches: "They must be treated with respect, compassion, and sensitivity." (CCC, 2358)
The Catechism insists that those who experience this inclination are, like everyone else, called to chastity. This is a beautiful teaching, for the Church affirms the dignity of those who experience same- sex attraction precisely by affirming that by cultivating virtue, they can attain inner freedom and, with the help of genuine friendship, prayer, and sacramental grace, "resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC, 2359)....
Though the Vatican has not released its own findings about the McCarrick case, some church historians feel that the details of how McCarrick was protected — once they are revealed — could damage the reputations of Benedict XVI and, even more so, Saint John Paul II. Do you feel that either Benedict XVI or John Paul II could have done more to properly handle McCarrick?
I sincerely wish that all documents, if they have not already been destroyed, would be released. It is entirely possible that this would harm the reputation of Benedict XVI and Saint John Paul II, but that is not a good reason for not seeking the truth. Benedict XVI and John Paul II are human beings, and may well have made mistakes. If they did, we want to know about them. Why should they remain hidden? We can all learn from our mistakes.
I myself regret not having spoken publicly earlier. As I already said, I had truly hoped against hope that the Church could reform itself from within. But when it became clear that the successor of Peter himself was one of those covering up the crimes, I had no doubt that the Lord was calling me to speak up, as I have done and will continue to do.
Do you think there is a risk of schism in the American Church?
A schism is the most terrible affliction that the Church, the body of Christ, can endure, and as the history of the Church teaches, it can have lasting consequences. We should pray that such a catastrophe never again befall her. A formal schism (involving mutual excommunication of validly ordained bishops and subsequent lay realignment) seems unlikely at the moment. However, there is already a de facto schism based on acceptance or rejection of the sexual revolution. And there is a risk is of formal schism, which could be provoked by an act of grotesque papal irresponsibility (e.g., if he were to answer the long-ignored dubia about the teaching of Amoris Laetitia in a manner contrary to previous Church teaching)....
If you could redo events, would you still ask for the Pope Francis's resignation? Do you think asking for the pope's resignation took attention away from your message?
I did the best I could with my testimony, and the Lord asks no more than that. I stand by that testimony. Still, I am far from perfect, and I can see, in retrospect, how certain points might have been better stated. I can see that it would have been better to address the matter you ask about in the following way, beginning with a point I included in my third testimony:
"I am asking, indeed earnestly begging, the Holy Father to face up to the commitments he himself made in assuming his office as successor of Peter. He took upon himself the mission of confirming his brothers and guiding all souls in following Christ, in the spiritual combat, along the way of the cross. Let him admit his errors, repent, show his willingness to follow the mandate given to Peter and, once converted, let him confirm his brothers (Lk 22:32)."
I would have pointed out that Saint Peter himself denied Christ three times, but then wept bitterly and repented. Then I would have said what I say now: May Pope Francis imitate St. Peter! But if Pope Francis refuses to admit his mistakes and ask for forgiveness, so he can carry out the mandate he received from Christ, he should resign....
When you decided to act, were you inspired by Saint Thomas More, or by any other historic figure?
I was inspired by Blessed Cardinal Newman who said, "if I am obliged to bring religion into after-dinner toasts, I shall drink — to the pope, if you please — still, to Conscience first, and to the pope afterwards," and by Saint John Fisher, the sole bishop of the Catholic Church in England who did not bend to Henry VIII. These his words are so appropriate for our time: "The light of good example is extinguished in those who ought to shine as luminaries to the whole world, like watchtowers and beacons on the mountains. No light, alas! comes from them, but horrid darkness and pestilent mischief, by which innumerable souls are falling into destruction." (Blessed John Fisher, by Rev. T.E. Bridgett, London (1888), p. 435)....
VIGANÒ: In conclusion, I wish to point out that the current crisis is not a power struggle between progressive and conservatives, between left and right. Neither is it primarily about the sexual misbehavior of the clergy, or the prevalence of active homosexuals in the clergy, though these grave problems, which are perennial in the Church, are especially severe now. The crisis is about the fact that a corrupt "mafia" has taken control of many institutions of the Church, from the top down, and is exploiting the Church and the faithful for its own immoral purposes. As I noted above, this coalition is bound together not by shared sexual intimacy but by a shared interest in protecting and advancing one another professionally and in sabotaging every effort to reform the sexual corruption. Yet the members of this alliance, and those who fear its wrath, are the only ones with the authority to correct the problem through proper judicial procedures, the imposition of discipline and the reaffirmation of sound teaching.
This is causing an institutional paralysis that is immensely demoralizing for the faithful. That said, we should be neither entirely surprised nor overly disturbed by this desperate state of affairs, given the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit and Christ's promise to come again and establish his definitive kingdom. I conclude by quoting a sobering passage from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which seems to be verified in our own age:
Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. (CCC, 675)
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